Monday, January 17, 2011

Talk To The Hand

Via Memeorandum, I find it ironic that on the day America celebrates one of the greatest civil rights leaders in our collective history, a man who taught the world the value of civil discourse and paid the ultimate price for it as a result, that we read Don Surber saying civil discourse can go to hell in one of the nuttiest winger rants I've read since the election.

It's astonishingly funny, leading to a number of similar rants from the right this morning.

But it is very instructive.  We have heard the phrase "the politics of grievance" used in a number of contexts over the years, but never has it fit better than with the modern Tea Party movement.

They say they are representative of an overwhelming American majority, and yet simultaneously they say they have been victimized for decades (Surber himself points to Bush v. Gore as a watershed moment in the shackling of conservatives, you know where Bush won and became President for eight years.)

They demand an adult conversation about the problems facing America, and then when given a voice they use it to proclaim how their rights have been trampled by "socialism" and that they have no intention of listening to what the other side has to say.  (Surber sums that up expertly by saying "Bite me."  A lot.) 

It's this dichotomy of rah-rah nationalism of the majority and the aggrieved stance of the victim that would stagger anyone trying to make logical sense of the movement, and yet it's treated as tautology by the media, politicians, and the Tea Party themselves.

Surber is correct when he says that the Tea Party right does not want civil discourse in any form, because if we took the injected politics of grievance out of the words he has to say, we'd be laughing at him.

40 comments:

bughunter said...

Its as if folks like Surber have become so accustomed to cognitive dissonance that they find it comforting -- or addictive -- and become enraged when confronted with facts.

I've been waiting for the conservative movement to reach the apex of their trajectory across the shark pen. They're nearly there. There's no way they can continuously be so insensitive to others, impervious to facts, and immune to logic and remain acceptable to the mainstream. At some point the Village will catch on to this and the USS Wingnut will be abandoned by all except those who have shackled themselves to the masts.

Bon The Geek said...

One can hope. Then Zandar could take a vacation!

Anonymous said...

With Republicans controlling the House and President Obama and the Democrats holding the Senate and White House, there's still plenty of Stupid to fight on all sides with a crumbling global economy imperiling the world, two seemingly endless wars, a federal government nobody trusts or believes in, global climate change putting us on the brink of destruction and a Village media that barely does its job on even the best day.

Needless to say there's a lot of Stupid out there still coming from both political parties, when we need solutions.

Shouting stupid is a very civil baseline, noodnik.

Anonymous said...

So after an uncivil snark like this you believe you deserve civility in return?

Let it soak for a bit, water it with thought and maybe grow a brain.

Anonymous said...

"Stupidicomments", eh?

How very appropriate!

"I find it ironic that on the day America celebrates one of the greatest civil rights leaders in our collective history, a man who taught the world the value of civil discourse and paid the ultimate price for it as a result, that we read Don Surber saying civil discourse can go to hell in one of the nuttiest winger rants I've read since the election."

You're "celebrating" nothing of the kind, chum.

You are simply using the anniversary of MLK to attack, yet again, your political opponents on the Right for their anger at the way the Left used the occasion of the mass-murder in Tucson to attack
them.

You know nothing...nothing...about civil discourse or MLK's message.

"They demand an adult conversation about the problems facing America..."

Not from the likes of you. It isn't expected, and neither will it be forthcoming.

That is why the agenda of the Left, along with it's toxic and violent rhetoric, was just rejected in the biggest mid-term loss of congressional power by a party since the second FDR Administration.

The civil adult discourse will be carried out among civil adults. The Moonbat Left can go and tantrum at the Kiddies' Table.

Where they belong...

Anonymous said...

Civil Discourse, you say?
Called for by the man who called for his followers to "get in their faces"?
"If they bring a knife, we bring a gun"?
Telling Latinos to "punish your enemies" (meaning other American citizens)?
Then we get to the spewing of Kos, Olbermann, Matthews, Schultz, and you STILL want people to give your passive agressive victimhood dance a spin?
REALLY?!

I find more credibility coming from a Magic Eight Ball.

Anonymous said...

Poor moronic lib. Still allowing anonymous comments and he's picking a fight with IOTW?

Well then. Let the games begin. You're about to find out how far out of your league you are.

Zandar said...

The hell?

Did I leave some Gorgonzola out or something?

What's with the rabble rabble here?

Zandar said...

Oh hoooooo! Mystery solved.

"A Blogger Named “Zandar Versus The Stupid” Takes Umbrage With The Right’s Resistance To The Left’s Brand New Call For Civil Discourse" from the I Own The World guys.

Well no, actually I'm just Zandar. Hi! But hey, you Own The World, so you have more umbrage than me to take. Or something.

An entire world of umbrage, apparently. Must be exhausting to cart around that much umbrage at once.

"...this is the most traffic his imbecile has ever gotten." Well, actually, no. That's not true.
But congrats on the correct usage of umbrage and imbecile, which I believe puts you in the top 1% of the folks who stop by to prove my point in the post above.

Thanks for playing.

gandalf said...

"Did I leave some Gorgonzola out or something?"

I suppose that cutting the cheese just comes naturally to you. Soak in it. This is the most attention you've gotten since you were weaned.

In fact, you are peaking now.

Zandar said...

Well damn, these guys have a store and a Tammy Bruce quote and everything.

And they called me a name!

I am undone and surely finished!

Bon The Geek said...

Heh, your traffic is so low they are piggybacking. And how dare you ask for this "civil discourse" thing anyway?

Thanks for playing kids, but you gotta get out of the pool now. The grown-ups are going to talk.

Anonymous said...

"The hell?

Did I leave some Gorgonzola out or something?

What's with the rabble rabble here? "

A very civil and adult rejoinder.

About what was expected.

Zandar said...

For those of you just joining us, I was just asking for civil discourse from the guys with the store and the Tammy Bruce quote who called me an imbecile.

Usually they don't get around to calling me that until the third date.

I'd be hurt, but I'm just too stupid to know better.

Mrs. Polly said...

Longified "uncivil snark:"

"How uncivil to mock our refusal to be civil, you meanie! You are all meanies who won't let a man shout "YOU LIE" at the President during the SOTU in peace! And quoting a line from The Untouchables is totally equivalent to putting gun sights on the names of members of Congress who had already had their office doors kicked in and constituents dropping guns at their town halls!

Anonymous said...

"For those of you just joining us, I was just asking for civil discourse from the guys with the store and the Tammy Bruce quote who called me an imbecile"

OIC, you called them illogical, ranting,(wing)nuts who are simultaneously practicing "rah-rah nationalism" and grievance politics,
but you get your feelings hurt when someone characterizes YOUR screed as coming from an imbecile.

Got it.
Adult and civil discourse is manifestly a one-way street for you.

"I'd be hurt, but I'm just too stupid to know better."

To quote a great faux-American:

"Stupid is as stupid does".

Anonymous said...

Eat your cheese with your WHINE moonbat. Civil discourse? Celebrating MLK day? What a crock. I'm on the right and am nobody's victim. Your "article" is a sad reflection of the hypocrisy and sanctimony of the so-called progressive left. Lots of talk & demands & holier-than-thou screeds. Regressive is more like it.

Anonymous said...

OMG HILARIOUS! Isn't great even the NYTimes admit today that loughner was a bush-hating TRUTHER?

What with the whackjob death-threat-making Fuller last weekend, the leftists self-immolation is nearly complete.

Y'all exploded a ton of whoop-ass in your faces!

too funny!

StarStorm said...

Man, why do all the entertaining morons come around when I'm not watching? I mean, I see this thread dominating the comments, and I am thinking it's Stevie-poo and the ICP being dicks again, and it turns out to be the 101st Fighting Keyboarders.

Oh well, at least it's a changeup from ICP's insanity and SteveAR's soul-deadening banality.

innocent bystander said...

"Your 'article' is a sad reflection of the hypocrisy and sanctimony of the so-called progressive left."

you really and truly believe that the left has a monopoly on those traits? you don't think there's a conservative analog to Z and this blog out there?

you are a dumb-ass.

Zandar said...

Gee thanks. I think.

Anonymous said...

How was it once upon a time spoken?
KILL BUSH!!!!!!!!!!
But now they call for "civility."

Or, was it
THE ONLY DOPE WORTH SHOOTING IS BUSH!
But now they call for "civility."

I seem to remember
F*CK BUSH!!!!!!!!!
But now they call for "civility."

I don't know which is more appropriate:
"The Leftie Boy Who Cried 'Wolf!'"
or
It's A Little Late For YOU Of All People To Be Calling For "Civility."

HYPOCRITE.

Anonymous said...

1nnocent bystander:
"...you are a dumb-ass."

How adult.
How civil.

You are neither innocent, nor are you a bystander.

Zandar said...

Man, got umbrage and civil discourse all over my comments section.

Clean up on aisle seven.

Allan said...

It was really helpful of the boys over at Whites Own the World to explain to their readers what they were supposed to hate about Zandar's post before they got here.

What's the difference between Tammy Bruce and these internet trolls?

Tammy's the only one who's seen a grown woman naked, or brought one to orgasm.

Bah-dum-bum. I'll be here all week.

Zandar said...

Now Allan, you're getting umbrage everywhere. Be nice.

I mean clearly these guys are our moral superiors, they have a store where they sell things to people who feel bad about themselves and want to make others feel worse.

I mean when you peddle to the lowest common denominator, you need to streamline the process of the flash hate mob.

Or in this case, the flash mildly perturbed senior citizen "hey it's lime jello day at Golden Corral" clump.

Hunger Tallest Palin said...

Zandar you should say thank you to Anonymous.

He's taken time off from his busy schedule of spanking it to furry pron in order to send you a bunch of freeze dried fReichtard fibs.

Anonymous said...

Don Surber really wrote the most unnecessary blog post of his entire life. Has there ever been a moment for Surber, or for any current conservative, including the ankle biting trolli today, who had a moment that wasn't summed up by 'Bite me, Liberals! LOL'?

Don Surber and his kind didn't start their media lives posting about their grandkids and kitten videos. They started out as hard core conservative asshats. I find it implausible that he's finally snapped and wrote 'gosh darn liberals - you are finally Too Mean For Me!'

These guys didn't feel shame when Jim David Adkisson made the news and directly cited Beck and Fox as his inspiration. Why should I expect them to change their tune now?

StarStorm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
StarStorm said...

Hunger Tallest Palin, please do not associate these people with people who do actually spank it to furry pr0n.

Oh god, I'm now remembering Cigarskunk.

(P.S. Blogger still needs an edit function.)

Zandar said...

Oh you had to go bring that nightmare up, thanks Star.

bughunter said...

I find it amusing how the right can always pull a whole host of unattributed "violent left" quotes out of their ass when the whole "uncivil" subject comes up.

Remember, though, that the reason there are no citations is because the comments come from nobodies and trolls in message boards, or are taken so far out of context that any citation would reveal the nonsequitur. The few that they do attribute are willfully misinterpreted with the eager intellectual dishonesty of a cognitive dissonance addict.

Meanwhile, the blatantly inciteful and aggressive quotes from the right are correctly attributed to GOP main ticket candidates for national office, from media figureheads, and even elected officials. In other words, from conservatives in positions of influence, right wing role models and conservative leadership.

Unlike the Left, the Right mainstreams crazy. That's because the Big Lie isn't enough any more for these addicts; now they need the Big Libel to get their fix. Just any old falsehood won't get them high any more, it's gotta be outrageous, hurtful, or both. Meanwhile, the left stands around bewildered or (at places like Sadly No!) amused while the crazy runs circles around them like Tazmanian Devils.

The majority of the public aren't oblivious to this, they're just apathetic. So far. But (returning to my original thesis) at some point, the mainstream apathy is going to evaporate and teh crazy is going to stop being entertaining to the fourth estate. And suddenly the rancorous incitement to violence will become a subject of concern.

The only questions are, what will be the tipping point and how long will it take? Some people thought it was going to be an event like Loughner's rampage, but clearly that wasn't enough. It makes me afraid when I contemplate what it will take.

StarStorm said...

Just what you needed before bed, hm?

SteveAR said...

bughunter manages to show examples of what projection is.

Here's the best one:

I've been waiting for the conservative movement to reach the apex of their trajectory across the shark pen. They're nearly there. There's no way they can continuously be so insensitive to others, impervious to facts, and immune to logic and remain acceptable to the mainstream.

I'm guessing bughunter wrote that without reading this from Surber:

Last week, the left quickly blamed the right for the national tragedy of a shooting spree by a madman who never watched Fox News, never listened to Rush Limbaugh and likely did not know who Sarah Palin is.

Fortunately, the American public rejected out of hand that idiotic notion that the right was responsible.


To paraphrase a quote from Animal House, "Dumb and stupid are no way to go through life."

SteveAR said...

More bughunter projection:

I find it amusing how the right can always pull a whole host of unattributed "violent left" quotes out of their ass when the whole "uncivil" subject comes up.

Remember, though, that the reason there are no citations is because the comments come from nobodies and trolls in message boards, or are taken so far out of context that any citation would reveal the nonsequitur. The few that they do attribute are willfully misinterpreted with the eager intellectual dishonesty of a cognitive dissonance addict.


Take a look at the citations of the violent left here, assclown.

bughunter said...

Steve, I've read everything that you've referenced from Surber and Malkin. They're who I'm referencing when I talk about crazy, and draw allusions to Taz. And believe me, I was being far kinder than they deserve.

Just because they can cough a hairball up onto a newspaper doesn't make it truth.

SteveAR said...

So, bughunter, you make it a point to ignore documented evidence simply because it doesn't fit what you believe, right?

I'll bet you're a 9/11 Truther and believe a "right-wing" conspiracy was involved in the JFK assassination, right?

Betty Cracker said...

Oooo, was Anon V above ever right when he said,

"Well then. Let the games begin. You're about to find out how far out of your league you are."

And literally FIVES of anonymous wingnuts materialized to leave sub-literate insults! Look upon the mighty works of IOTW, Zandar, and despair! (Flying monkey FAIL]

Zandar said...

I know. I needed better trolls, not more failtastic trolls. It's a quality thing.

Clearly I have to have civil discourse with a higher-class bunch like Gateway Pundit, Riehl World View or the voices in Michele Bachmann's head.

StarStorm said...

Like I said, I thought the IOTW's 101st Flying Keyboarders was a pleasant change.

It really is the little things like variety that helps a person get through the day.

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