Thursday, April 15, 2010

A Poll Arising Debate

Much has been made of this CBS News/NY Times poll that shows Tea Party supporters are older, white, conservative, and have more money and are more educated than your average American.  That's about right, as a matter of fact.  Most conservatives as a whole fit those categories and it's not suprising at all that Tea Party supporters are in fact conservative.

Here's what is surprising:
Their responses are like the general public’s in many ways. Most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools. A plurality do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers. They actually are just as likely as Americans as a whole to have returned their census forms, though some conservative leaders have urged a boycott. 
They're not angry about paying too much in taxes, and they don't particularly like Sarah Palin, and they support Social Security and Medicare.  That kind of flies in the face with everything we're being told about the Tea Party by the right wing noise machine, that Tea Party supporters are there because they are overtaxed, want to cut federal spending including SS and Medicare, and that Sarah Palin represents them.

On the other hand, when it comes to their views on social class and race, they are exactly what you expect.
Tea Party supporters’ fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.

The overwhelming majority of supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves. More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent think that the administration favors blacks over whites — compared with 11 percent of the general public.

They are more likely than the general public, and Republicans, to say that too much has been made of the problems facing black people.

Asked what they are angry about, Tea Party supporters offered three main concerns: the recent health care overhaul, government spending and a feeling that their opinions are not represented in Washington. 
But remember, racial animosity has nothing to do with the Tea Party movement.  All the racists are liberal plants who have infiltrated the ranks.  And what's actually even more hysterical:  white conservative educated and wealthy Baby Boomers in 2010 are complaining they don't feel their opinions are represented in Washington!

Have you guys taken a look at the demographic make-up of the United States Senate, maybe?  Oh wait, they're looking at the Oval Office.  My bad.  We just haven't had enough older white guys in the position, I guess.

The reality behind the Tea Party movement is simple.  "I got mine, and I'm sure as hell not letting a black President give it away to poor black people.  Screw you."

Digby has more.
Here's the corker:

Regardless of your overall opinion, do you think the views of the people in the tea party movement generally reflect the views of most Americans?
84% of the self-identified teabaggers said yes. Only 25% of the general public agreed.
Of course the people with the money, getting the SS checks and the Medicare represent the entire country.  They say they do, and so does the Village and the Republican party.

Billmon over at Big Orange has even more.
Considering the administration spent the better part of its first year in power shoveling money into the Aid for Dependent Wall Street Banks program it inherited from the Bush Administration, or rebuilding public infrastructure that primarily benefits suburban commuters and long-distance truckers, or promoting middle-class tax cuts, or pushing Congress to enact an elaborate and very generous system of subsidies for working-class and middle-class people who can't afford (or like to pretend they can't afford) health insurance, you'd think Obama would get a small break here. God only knows what the teabaggers would be saying about him if he really did try to do something big and expensive specifically to help those people.

Whatever it is, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that it would include some fairly generous helpings of the "N" word.
Post-racial era my black ass.  These guys don't hate the GOP.  They are the GOP.  What they hate are Democrats, minorities, Barack Obama, and any Republican who "enables" them by not shutting down the government with those hated enemies in charge.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

So the ones they interviewed, where?

At the tea party rallies?

Now tell me, who can afford to just up and take off work to go to one of these things and regularly donate time to these? Probably those who aren't too bad off right now.

I know I certainly can't take off work just to go to some rally. Granted if I could there is plenty else I would rather do.

Again if you would think for yourself you might draw your own conclusion instead of being led into one.

Zandar said...

Well gosh, I've been saying "Hey, these guys are older white Republicans complaining about those young bucks" for months now.

I'm also not the one passing them off as ordinary Americans from the heartland, either.

That would be the "liberal media".

Anonymous said...

You assume this blogger is capable of independent thought! Judging by all the links and ideas swiped from better blogs, I'm going to go with no...

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...

So you have to go to an event to be a member? Again this is subjective and has selected a narrow enough group to try and prove a point.

Fail blog is fail.

Also to Anon2: I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing that..

Anonymous said...

"Asked what they are angry about, Tea Party supporters offered three main concerns: the recent health care overhaul, government spending and a feeling that their opinions are not represented in Washington."

"But remember, racial animosity has nothing to do with the Tea Party movement."

From what you yourself just posted that would be correct. You offer a collection of ideas that don't chain together, and then want us to tie them together as though they are all self evident truths.

A FRACTION of the "movement" thinks that the administration favors blacks over whites. Which you bold. Which is actually probably not that many people (25% of a small movement is small?) when you also state 11% of the GENERAL PUBLIC think the same thing. Of course you didn't bold that 'eh?

So. A fraction think that, but they DON'T list it as a reason they are angry, because you then follow it up with what they ARE angry about.

Why should I then follow your assumption that racial animosity DOES have something to do with it?

L2Idependent thought in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

And this is where our hero with the COOL KID INTERNET NAME OF ZANDAR comes in to bitch and moan about the mean old trolls on his blog.

Leave the Tea Party alone. You're getting owned on your own fucking blog...:(

Zandar said...

All this attention from people who hate the blog.

Isn't the internet great, kids?

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...

Great reply Zandar, totally defended the fact that a few Anon's ripped the very essence of this post (and blog) apart.

Must have a lot of sand in your ears with where your head is at <_<

Anonymous said...

::This is the L2Independent Thought Anon::

Does this mean you're not going to reply to what I said? Because I'm not "registered" to blogspot, and I posted with the available Anon tag, I must hate your blog, and therefore am not allowed to have an opinion?

That must be a handy excuse, "You're opinion is different therefore it doesn't exist".

Fail. Harder.

Zandar said...

To recap, I have 3 or 4 people who have shown up in a thread to say "yeah, I agree" in a thread where I'm being accused of not having independent thought, the thread being about a group of misinformed, fact-ignoring people who are damn proud to bear the moniker "I am the mob."

Congratulations.

Anonymous said...

Well see the roles are now reversed, he can tell people there not allowed to have an opinion now. Damn 60's...

Anonymous said...

So now you're talking to yourself instead of actually responding and/or debating me over what I posted?

This is a blog, and obviously you're allowed to have your own opinions on your blog, but you've chosen a topic of politics to define said blog, and if someone doesn't agree you're shutting down in a way that is akin to "lalalala I can't hear you".

Tbh I do see you're also getting trolled, but I figured this was a good as place as any to get a dialogue started. While I also commented on "independent thought" I chose that because of your reliance on quoting other sources for opinion which sucks.

What do YOU think? And if I comment, what do you have to say TO that? Not "I can't see you lalala".

Zandar said...

And to Mr. Independent Thought, do read that very detailed poll. Does it mean all people who agree with the Tea Party harbor racial animosity? No. Hell, if anything there's some pretty nasty racial animosity in the general public according to this poll.

The Tea Party represents only about 18% of the country.

If anything, that alone proves how fringe these guys are, and yet they are being treated as the most important group politically in the country right now. They believe they are mainstream, over 80% of them.

It's just not true. You're right...these guys are a laughable fringe.

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

There, THAT is what I would like to see going forward to be perfectly honest.

If anything I think the issue you can "plant your flag on" is that 11% of the GENERAL PUBLIC thinks black people are getting preferential treatment.

But you reference poll #'s etc and they are pretty much non-verifiable.

Obviously the people being polled are @ the rallies, only certain people can even go to a rally.

Distance/jobs/etc factor into that.

From there you have to know HOW people were "randomly" picked to BE polled.

I know the popular thing to do is talk about the "fringe groups" and how "Crazy they are!"

But most people already know that. How about a discussion or a post about how FUCKED you are right now if you're the middle class?

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...

People are posting too fast for me to reply to it all! Damn!

Anyway, Zandar you still did not negate the fact that you were attempting yet again prove racism where it indeed does not exist. Are racists out there, yes. Are they out there and in as big of groups with torch and pitchforks like you exaggerate? Hell no.

Lay off the race card, its old.

Anonymous said...

Well I don't think that's fair either. There probably is racism there somewhere, just based on chance alone. So you can't prove it doesn't exist anymore then he can prove it DOES exist.

But I do agree he was trying to lead the "reader" along the path by the hand to the end result of "HOLY SHIT THEY ALL HATE BLACKS".

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...

Hence why I said

"Are racists out there, yes. Are they out there and in as big of groups with torch and pitchforks like you exaggerate? Hell no."

Zandar said...

You can't prove racism to someone when they simply don't believe the actions being taken or the behaviors being displayed are racist in anyway.

If you don't consider the beliefs racist, then to you it's not racism.

And that is where we disagree.

Anonymous said...

Well racism is when your actions take place BECAUSE of race.

From what you just posted, and what I've read elsewhere, that doesn't enter into it.

"What makes you angry?"

"X/Y/Z"

Did X/Y/Z = "Minority Group"

If yes = racist

If No = not racist


However, you're adding in a Second Question now:
"Do you think black people are getting preferential treatment?"

And you're saying that:

If yes = racist

If no = Not racist

However, the majority of the group answered no (per this poll), and even if they answered yes, that is their opinion to a question, which in and of itself is not racist, it's an opinion. They don't say "Yes I think they are and I hate them because of their skin color".

Now, the question then becomes "Why do they feel that way?" But that isn't being asked...sooo....?

Anonymous said...

Racism - Osamabama is NOT black!!
Born of a WHITE woman + Black man, he is a HALF-BREED ! ! SOOO,WHO CARES, HE CAN'T RUN THE COUNTRY in the way we need him to lead..

Unknown said...

Now the other anons will pretend that one of their spiritual brethren didn't just drop a log in the punchbowl to prove Zandar's point, and claim that Zandar is the Real Racist(c).

Zandar said...

Aha.

Hello, AOL News readers.

Anonymous said...

"Hello AOL News readers, continue to watch as I insert my foot in my mouth in my own blog"

fixT

Anonymous said...

Wow, not even one of this stupid fucker's readers can or will mount a halfway decent defense of this asshole's blog.

That is sad. You've been doing this for what, a year and a half now and can't find a single person to say you're doing a good job?

Jesus Christ. YOU ARE THE DEFINITION OF PATHETIC. Shut this fucking disgrace of a blog down and do something better with your life, asshole.

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...

O.O

Well now...

Unknown said...

Yeah, it's really amazing the way white people walk into a black man's house and then start ordering him around like he's their servant.

Zandar could delete and ban you fuckers, but he lets your posts stand. People from other blogs come here, and then return to laugh at his trolls and their constant state of outrage that an American is blogging while black.

Saw y'all at the tea party yesterday...

In Ur Blog Eatin Waffles (Accept no fail imitations) said...

Why jump to race Allan?

How are we ordering? We are expressing an opinion that is different than Zandar's and have backed that up using logic. I know this is a strange and foreign concept to you but try to take the time to read and understand.

PS - You're still linking pics? You must have really liked when I did that to you :) You keep using it over and over..

FAIL

Unknown said...

Because I'm the Real Racistc).

Real Racist(c) is a registered copyright of Andrew Breitbart and is used with permission.

Anonymous said...

So Allan, because we disagree we must be white? And you're using white with a negative connotation.

Tsk tsk, racist prick.

You're really helping prove the point now!

Unknown said...

Well, duh.

I told you I'm the Real Racist(c)!

I figure I'm performing a public service by keeping you engaged here, as it's hard for you to display your racial resentments online AND assemble explosive devices at the same time.

Anonymous said...

Well since you want to keep playing the racial angle.

Allow me to play on the same level.

"Just like a dumb ass negro to not understand that I can be on the internet from the comfort of my home AND, AT THE SAME TIME, build a bomb to turn the nearest KFC into a smoking crater."

See what i did there? Black people like KFC /snicker.

Anonymous said...

Actually its Popeye's but duly noted.

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